The Importance of Trust in B2B Marketing with Joel Harrison | #22

In this week’s episode of The 1% Insight, host Jack Regan sits down with Joel Harrison, a veteran in the B2B Marketing space with over 20 years of experience shaping the industry.

Joel co-founded B2B Marketing in 2004 and has been instrumental in establishing key industry communities & events including the Propolis community, B2B Marketing Awards, B2B Ignite, and the Global ABM Conference.

He currently hosts the Trust & Influence in B2B podcast and can be regularly seen on stages across the globe as a keynote speaker and industry commentator. 

Why Trust Matters More Than Ever

Joel explains how trust has become increasingly critical in today's B2B landscape. Several factors have converged to make trust essential: growing societal cynicism, the diminishing authority of traditional media sources, increased market noise, and the proliferation of AI-generated content.

Marketing teams must now work harder than ever to cut through the noise and build genuine relationships with their audiences. 

Joel identifies three interconnected pillars that B2B organisations should focus on: Thought Leadership, Influencer Marketing & Advocacy.

Key Insights for B2B Tech Marketers 

• Trust is a defining challenge for B2B marketers in 2026 due to increased cynicism, market noise, and AI-generated content.
• Thought leadership must demonstrate impact throughout the entire buyer journey, not just at the top.
• B2B influencer marketing includes your team, industry experts, and journalists not just paid promoters.
• Customer advocacy is vastly underutilised, move beyond case studies to operationalise customer voices.
• Consistency over time beats complex tactics, simple, sustained efforts deliver better results. 

This is a great episode for B2B Tech Marketers who are searching for the 1% changes that can make a huge difference over time.

• Connect with Joel on LinkedIn 

• Learn about Joel’s work, podcast & more: Learn more 

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Keywords: B2B technology marketing, SaaS Marketing, B2B Strategy, Tech Industry Insights, B2B Branding, Lead Generation, Marketing Automation, Account-Based Marketing, B2B Sales Funnel, Customer Acquisition, Demand Generation, Marketing ROI, B2B Content Strategy, Digital Transformation, Enterprise Marketing 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the 1% Insight. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Joel Harrison. Joel has spent over 20 years at the center of B2B Marketing as an editor, keynote speaker, ambassador, and evangelist, being instrumental in defining the vibrant and dynamic sector that we know today. Joel has co-founded the B2B Marketing magazine in 2004, going on to set up the B2B Marketing Awards, B2B Ignite, the Global ABM Conference, and latterly the populous community. Joel is also the host of the Trust and Influence and B2B podcast, key topics we are going to be focusing on today. Welcome to the 1% insight, Joel. Thanks, Jack.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

It's lovely to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Brilliant. So I'd love to jump straight in, Joel, and kind of get an idea of how you got into B2B marketing and all the way kind of setting up the magazine back in 2004.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Well, I could tell you a very, very long version of that story, but I don't think anyone would have a patience or the interest in that. So I'll try and tell you like a brief version of it. I was a journalist working in marketing. I had a friend who was a marketer, and we were talking about working for ourselves, and we noticed what could we do? And we looked around opportunities and we've noticed that there were in the UK at the time, this is like around the millennium, there were loads of marketing magazines. There are about 20, but there were nothing focused on B2B. And if you read those magazines, things like Marketing Week or Campaign, who you might you might be familiar with, um B2B just didn't exist in those areas, and it's like just seemed really strange to me. And given a lot of my background had been in working about marketing about technology in the financial services sector, I was kind of what why why isn't it focusing on this? And so the more we thought about the more realised it was ridiculous and that it was an opportunity and we should go and do it. And again, a very long story short, um, we launched the magazine. Um and it seems crazy to build a business around a magazine, but that's what the media world was like in the around the turn of the millennium. Um and around launched it in 2004, and there wasn't really anything, there wasn't a B2B marketing sector there. There wasn't agencies like you guys, Jack. It was um it was there were lots of big agencies and lots of people specializing in certain channels like direct marketing. This is before the internet really became a thing as well, really. You know, LinkedIn was like an address book at that time, that was all it was, and it was pre-Facebook and all those kind of things. So it was a very different era, very different age. We launched the magazine, and gradually we've seen the industry, certainly it was more established in the US, in the UK, and and and Ireland, I suppose, to a degree. I'm not less familiar with the trajectory within Ireland, but I see the tech sector being so big in Ireland, gradually kind of developed and evolved, um, and got into events quite quickly. And we actually uh the magazine actually stopped pub being printed um in uh about three years ago. You've got some back issues on the wall behind me if you're what if you're able to see an image of this. But we still uh the business that exists to do some great events, and we have a community for for B2B marketers to come together called Propolis, as you say, which is where they can learn from each other. And I my job, I've been released from being operationally involved in business, and I'm now been free to be a speaker, a commentator, a podcaster, an influencer, and trying to kind of like really a bit like you, Jack, trying to embody some of the changes that are going on in this world and learning sort of new skills. And when you're at my advancing age, that's harder to do than when you're you know young like you and you're embracing all the things that are going on.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

It's a fantastic journey to date. Um, and how did you kind of land on the areas? Was trust and influence like core pillars back in 2004 when you kind of started off the magazine, or is that something you kind of noticed throughout the industry um and analyzing it over the last two decades?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, it's a really good question. Um, it wasn't something that I talked a lot, we talked a lot about in 2004. It was anything that really came into focus for me um the last year or so. Um, and I was when I got the opportunity to step back from operations at B2B, um, because I was doing, I was at the head of content and I I was responsible for all the products, and I was very much a kind of customer-focused person as well. So I was had a very, very busy role. I was thinking, what could I do? And I I thought I was gonna write a book. I thought, you know, that's what people often do is they go and write a book because it's kind of a great way to immerse yourself in a topic. And I looked around and I was gonna write one on thought leadership because that's a very interesting topic, and it's quite not really very well served in the whole world of marketing. Um, in the whole people talk about content marketing a lot and they talk about digital channels and social, they don't talk about thought leadership as much. And then I so that seemed like a good idea, and then I thought, well, actually, the thought leadership is the kind of um is the how, but the thrust is the why. And and then that seemed like a much more compelling subject to me, and then it kind of started to spread out into other areas as well. So it's been fascinating to see this world I've kind of known for so well for over two decades, but to see it through a new lens, um, and that lens being trust. I really think this is it's a really it's never been more, it's it's always been important, but it's particularly important now.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

100% agree, Joel. Like we see it uh ourselves as well. It seems like there's an acceleration of that where there's uh an acceptance almost that B2B, the marketing is is not a cost center, it's actually an investment, and that if you're not doing it, you're actually not winning future customers and potential pipeline, et cetera, will will dry up because as we know from numerous studies, most of your target audience aren't actually in market right now. Um, and it's the work you're doing to build that trust and with them to make sure that you're you know top or at least one or two on that short list when they create it, it's it's more important than ever as technology advances, AI advances, you know, people are replicating products in you know hours, not you know, weeks or months. Development is going you know crazy fast right now and very competitive. So that trust and brand you build amongst your prospects is um is hugely important. And were there any mentors, uh core people that kind of helped you along your journey in the early days of setting up the magazine in terms of going from the kind of the journalist side to becoming more of an entrepreneur, business owner, were there any kind of key people in the B2B marketing community that you found really helped you take those next steps to have the success you did?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

That's a really good question. I think we had various kind of chair people of our business um over the years. But I think the the one person probably over the over the course of that time who's been really helpful and someone you might want to consider Jack for an interview, is Shane Redding, um, who is uh who kind of set up the B2B marketing course at uh the Institute of Direct Marketing in the UK. And she's just a very passionate advocate in all things B2B, and someone's got a lot of interesting opinions, and she's she's a great, fascinating person to talk to. So she's she's been brilliant. And other people as well who've been who are kind of helped in terms of another person who stands out for me in terms of their kind of knowledge and how they've really pushed the boundaries, is someone called Paul Cash, who runs an agency moment called Rooster Punk, and he's a fascinating guy, and he's really helped to kind of his his his narrative is around humanisation and B2B, and that's a really important topic as well. And that's I think one of the things what you've seen back to your early question, really, what did what are the kind of challenge of trust that like perhaps in the kind of you know the early noughties, you know, there was still this kind of lingering belief that B2B marketing was a rational activity, purchasing was a rational activity, and we did it, you know, and and I think hopefully most people have understood now that it is really not very rational at all, it's very emotional. They might post-rationalise and put a load of reasons why they made a decision afterwards, but often that's based on some very very irrational reasons. And and and trust isn't isn't always rational, but it but it's very but it's very, very important. So, Paul, in terms of the humanization piece, was um was one of the people to bang that drum and to really understand that mindset. So lots of people on the way along a lot of help. It's been a long, long, long journey. And and it's been I've been I've just loved talking to people. The thing that's so great about the B2B marketing industry is everyone is so passionate about it. And it also understands that we're all inherently kind of geeks, right? You know, we're always, you know, you were talking beforehand that you started marketing and you were talking about, you know, sportswear brands and I don't know, soft drink brands. And I think anyone who's B2B knows that that's not really very interesting and it's a bit a bit facile, and there's only, you know, what's that quote that uh supposedly uh Steve Jobs said to one of the found one of the key we approaches the CEOs do you want to be selling sugared water for the whole of your life? You know, it's it's a bit like that, right? It's kind of there's so much complexity and so much interest in that complexity.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

With B2B marketing, we all like to have this perfect, you know, ideal that we think that everyone goes through the same process and makes the same actions and it's a funnel approach, and that it's not a, you know, we're not humans, they're just robots at the other end of it making buying decisions when in reality it's just a group of people making buying decisions, they have their own personal interests for their own career, uh, no matter what company they're at. And that's inherently going to be a big factor in how they make decisions. It's like what's in it for me. They're looking at it from the company point of view, their own personal ambitions in terms of you know, maybe getting hired, getting a bonus, etc. They want to make the right decisions. Um, and sometimes I think there's more of a acceptance of it now that like the customer, the buying journey is not rational at all. It's not a set instruction. It's like people go in a market, out of market, they might see you on social, they won't talk to you again for ages, they might join a webinar, they might go ghost again, and then you all of a sudden you get a demo request or something like that. And it's very hard to attribute that. And I think that scares a lot of leadership teams, I guess, in B2B companies, because obviously what can't be tracked is is scary, and you know, but I think there's more of an acceptance now. What's your take on that one?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Absolutely. And we're still in this world where MQL seems to have uh it'd still be a currency that's viable, but at this but I think most marketers know that it's its relevance is limited at best. So yeah, it's a very challenging, interesting world.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

It is definitely. I guess we're in 2026 now, first Monday, official Monday, back uh in 2026. So we're we're going straight into it. In 2026 and beyond, in your own kind of analysis of the market, Joel, and your experience, what are the biggest challenges that B2B companies are facing when they're trying to build this trust and credibility with their potential buyers?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Well, I think one of the biggest challenges to me, the reason I think we kind of we've kind of tiptoed around the edges of this in our conversation so far, what's changed now to make trust so relevant right now is first of all, there's a few there's a few things. First of all, you've got there's a kind of general sense of cynicism that's grown up across society, and I and I'm not going to get too political, but there's certain populist politicians who've kind of um helped to encourage that by kind of deriding experts and expertise. So that's a kind of a baseline level layer. You also have kind of traditional sources of trust have been removed, and you know, and I Jack, I come from a different age to you, you know. I come up I've grown up in the era of magazines where you know there was authoritative sources that were that you knew they were authoritative because they landed on your desk in print paper form, you know. But even subsequent to them, you know, those brands were very powerful on the internet, kind of media intermediaries, and but those guys have increasingly become diminished in terms of their authority and then the the kind of space they take up in the market. There's much more noise in the market now. And then then a link to that as well. Then obviously in the last three years we've had, or is it three years? I can't remember when ChatGTP launched. It's it's kind of scarily a long time ago now, isn't it? Everyone has this ability to generate huge ability to create AI slop is the kind of term which seems to be used for it, you know, very easy to create compelling-looking content from the outside, which actually isn't really based on anything and and isn't asn't really grounded and isn't really authoritative and very robust. So there's more noise, it's harder to it's more messages we're all consuming. So you need so it's harder to make your message stick. So that's where building relationships is really, really important and and investing in um in trust and mechanisms to really reinforce the value and the importance and the resonance of your of your messaging and your your whole authority around your brand.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Have you seen any, I guess, tactics or strategies work well in kind of recent years in this kind of changing landscape?

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Well, I think that for me there are three the three pillars to trust, really, three primary things that you can do to really build trust. I mean, that's besides understanding what your brand is and committing to that and building it, right? That that's a kind of fundamental, that's uh, you know, the and the association to that. But but but very closely aligned to that. And there's the three areas as I say, thought leadership is the first one. I'm a really big believer in thought leadership. Having something that you believe in, that you stand for, and that you are, and and and clearly expressing the benefits of what you do as an organization and the challenges which you help people address. So it's not so much about purpose, well, it can overlay with purpose, it's about it's about how your organization can help address the problems and perhaps identify the problems which they didn't understand or appreciate yet. So you're helping to build that sense of relationship and that sense of trust with an organization via you know higher level content. So it's it's distinguished from it's not just content marketing because people often confuse content marketing and thought leadership. Of course, they're both content, but one is content marketing for me is more kind of transactional, it's more around that kind of demand generation process, that flow. Um, it's more about kind of orientated towards leads and practical solutions. This is much more strategic and high level than that. So thought leadership is the first one. As I said earlier on, I think it's been hasn't been given the the kudos or the respect or the understanding it deserves historically. There's all kinds of reasons why, and I can kind of go into that in detail, but that's a long, quite a long conversation. But the second area is influencer marketing, um, which I think uh is something which has again, we've a lot of people have assumed as being a consumer discipline, a consumer thing, because of what we know and we see in our in our consumer world. You know, we see influencers who are promoting consumer brands and are, you know, on social media or on TikTok and channels like that, and being kind of fairly overt in their kind of promotion of that. Whereas influencer in B2B, and there was a great study, it was a piece by Ogilby about three years ago, which really petty dropped for me that influencer marketing is a much broader sphere than that. It's not just those paid individuals who play an important role within influencer marketing, but they're not the only voices that are that are able to drive influence. Um there's a big overlap between thought leadership and influencer marketing, but also the other thing you have, the other aspect you have of influencer marketing is internal influences or people within your company who are influencers. So and there are third parties who are influential but they won't be paid, and journalists are a great example of that character, or people commentators of the market more generally. So understanding influence, understanding influencers is a really, really powerful way of driving trust, and it's that third party aspect of that, albeit via voices that aren't overtly expressly paid by you and your organization, but also have different distribution channels able to amplify and and re uh reinterpret in there a way that seems relevant to them and and is and is you know authentic to them. And the third area I'd say, and these do uh these three really do overlap, is advocacy. And you and we all know without being having to be told, no one will surprise if you say that that your customers are your best advocates, they're your best route to market. But advocacy is such a poorly understood and poorly utilized aspect of B2B marketing. You know, so few marketing cam marketing programs really seek to kind of weaponise is the wrong word, but operationalise that advocacy base of existing customers beyond perhaps some very kind of standard things like case studies. Um and we're starting to see that recognized in B2B marketing. We're starting to see kind of um what I'm kind of calling like a um trust in that area evolving of uh providers and solutions that are specifically focused on kind of formalizing and deploying that, all those great vibes you have from your customers to actually help your marketing work better. So for me, it's influence, it's um thought leadership, influencer marketing, and advocacy. They're very closely related, particularly, you know, if LinkedIn will call thought leader ads, they're basically influencer marketing ads, but they'll call them thought leader ads. Um and advocacy can be a can can be your team as well. But those are the three things for me which are the most powerful means of really helping to ramp up your trust, particularly in this current world.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Back to a previous point, um, I think you made on the thought leadership. Why do you think historically that this hasn't been an area that you know brands have wanted to invest in or they don't see the real value? They think it is a as a cost where that's billing the trust, bill of thought leadership function, the advocacy, the influencer marketing, all those areas working together. Why has that kind of been neglected? Um, and B2B marketing teams have had to fight so hard to kind of maybe fight that battle to say it is worth it, and then maybe not being given that support from leadership? It's a really good question.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I think a lot of reasons for it. One of them is that thought leadership was disconnected from the commercial aspect of marketing. It was seen as a kind of a top top of funnel. I know we're just you know we're we're kind of questioning the the notion of the funnel is a is a dubious one at best, but we at least we understand where it is in the in the process. Um it's a top of funnel activity which organizations have struggled to connect meaningfully to to revenue-oriented metrics, right? Right. So, so and and um and this is a bit that that many people who detractors of B2B don't really understand. You know, you have people in we have people who are in the in your organization of B2B organizations that need to be able to show, to see what their money their marketing is delivered, right? And you know, and and brand awareness just isn't isn't something which connects to revenue in a way that's meaningful both for those people. So that's why Thought Leadership, one of the reasons why Thought Leadership has been disconnected from it. Another one is it's very complicated and expensive because it to because this is one of the reasons why it's different from content marketing is because it has to be based on data. Whether that's research, you know, primary research, or whether it's kind of customer data, it has to be some rigorous uh basis uh rather than just being you know uh just just some nice content that you've created. And that's expensive and time consuming, and we know that B2B marketing often works on short time frames. The third reason Judge Points you right now, because there are there are others, is the fact that often B2B marketing campaigns are run by integrated agencies, right? Now you you're a content agency, what you guys do, and I I just I don't know, I suspect you you you have a pretty good take on what thought leadership is. But if you're if you're a B2B marketing agency and you're delivering advertising or programmatic, you know, whatever level you're doing it, that's your primary orientation. You're not really thought leadership isn't something which you understand uh or can sell. You'll you basically sell what you do, right? And they don't, and typically those agencies which are who are great companies, they do a great job and they do and they can derive excellent results, will focus, will sell what they do because they're businesses as well. So and they don't understand thought leadership is complicated, it takes time, it doesn't align with what they do, it doesn't demonstrate results, they're not going to push that. They're gonna push the things they do understand. So there are lots and lots of reasons.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

For I guess sitting in the shoes of maybe uh a marketing team within a B2B company right now, many have set the strategy or are still kind of working the last two bits going into 2026, you know, this week, next week, by the time this is released, they'll probably be a couple of weeks into their strategy. And they may or may not have, I guess, got that buy-in to say, you know, you know, test that out a bit more to taught leadership or your content marketing and kind of develop something like a brand focus on the trust. They mightn't have got the budget uh just just now for it. How would you advise them to kind of showcase the real value or I guess the consequences maybe of not investing it, that they could can maybe speak to their leadership team, uh the CFO of their B2B company and say, listen, you know, we need to actually invest in this and this is why we should do it. What type of conversation, or how would you kind of take that conversation if you were in a in a B2B marketing team at that company?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

One of the biggest challenges for marketing leaders in B2B is knowing how and what to say to the CEO and the CFO, because they don't speak marketing. They they don't they they think they understand marketing and it's simple, but they don't really speak marketing. So marketers have marketers have got to know, I don't want to make sound patronising because I really don't mean it because I know it's incredibly hard. They've got to know how to communicate with them in a way that's meaningful to them. And saying we're gonna do thought leadership because it's gonna um it's gonna increase communicate our build a better relationship with our with our with our customers and position ourselves around a great topic, they're gonna go, okay, great, so what? I guess the thing for me is is you've got to grow strategic thought leadership, and I've done a lot of work around this based on the entries to the B2B Marketing Awards, is when you have thought leadership that is joined up all the way through the funnel. It's not just a um uh a top-of-funnel brand-oriented exercise. That that way lies madness essentially. Like but great B2B marketing has to be integrated and has to demonstrate success through the funnel. So it's got to be able to demonstrate, if not MQLs, then it's got to demonstrate uh ability to drive uh engagement with your organization. It's got to be able to position you and provide meaningful marketing traction, which the sales team recognises, embraces, uh, and wants to utilize actively. And that's actually then got to be deployable within the sales conversation as well. So it's got to be able to have an impact on the middle of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel. And those look like different things in different ways. So for me, that means that that means that you've got to, you can't be spreading your marketing dollar or uh or euro or pound thinly. You've got to spread, you've got to focus it and focus it around uh larger themes where you have a thoughtless ship messaging at the top, which can be deployed in a more demand generation capacity further down, and then again in a in a kind of interactive dynamic capacity for the sales team. So now would you necessarily say that in as many words to the to CEO or CFO? I'm not sure that you would. Ideally, though you should have a good such a good relationship with them, they wouldn't kind of understand that. It's you you need to tell them what it is that you need to agree what the terms of engagement are with them. For me, it's a not only it's a it's a better way of getting, if you do it right and doing it right is complex. I'm not gonna pretend that it's not, it's a better way of getting better marketing uh bang for your buck and creating something which has a resonance over a longer period of time and repeatable over multiple years. There's also the other question which you asked, Jack, is if you're not going to do this, how are you going to distinguish yourself in this increasingly competitive, samey market where everyone's pumping out the same stuff all the time? So you've got to do something different to distinguish yourself, you know, and that could be you do amazingly creative advertising, but that might not be that maybe even more uncomfortable for those people because that costs a lot of money and it requires you to say some quite controversial things to be different genuinely. I think it's about framing thought is within within a package of a more commercially orientated program that's long-term and repeatable, um, and also understanding that it and and and communicating that to the board, not talking about bullshit necessarily in its own right because they won't understand it. And then it's also about saying, well, how if we're not going to distinguish ourselves, then how are we going to be successful in this world? There is a so it's an opportunity and a threat at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Over the last kind of six months or so, we've had a lot of interesting conversations with people saying that the benefit of events actually on uh their marketing. And I know events has been, you know, uh well before my time of entering the B2B market, but it it's it's been a core part of the marketing strategy in terms of lead generation, but actually having that conversation with customers as well. And I software. First hand in 2025, the real benefits of going to both niche events and then the larger obviously events that everyone goes to. So there's kind of a mix in that, and I know that that's something you focus on as well. Um, from actually speaking and being a keynote at those, but also the work that you you were doing at B2B Marketing and and the Propulous community and setting up all those events and the awards as well. How have you found events as a channel, I guess, of building that thought leadership, that advocacy, um, and building that trust uh amongst maybe potential clients, members, or maybe you've heard stories from uh you know companies and seen that work well. How have events kind of shaped that trust factor?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Well, I I think you really guys are a really good point, Jack, because I've never seen events have always been important in B2B marketing. And then we had COVID and it all changed, it became digital events, and then we got we got kind of sick of digital events because you know they're very convenient, but their perceived value is quite low. And um, rightly or wrongly, because sometimes the value was very, very high, right? But but I think they just became a bit ubiquitous. I've never known a period in B2B marketing where events have been as powerful and important as they are right now, both within the different vertical sectors, but also within B2B marketing as an industry itself. Um, and there's loads of events going on, um, and and but and that's great because it's a great way to meet people and to be inspired and to connect with your peers and with the people who you you might be buying from or seeking to sell to. I mean, so there's two reflections on that. One is just in terms of Propolis, uh, which is our community the beat the community or the it's a peer-to-peer advisory really platform that B2B Marketing launch, where we have brands like HPE and Deloitte and um ServiceNow and IBM are part of that organization. So more the corporate end than the kind of uh SaaS end. But what we tend to do with where events work within Propolis is that we run regular events activities to bring markets together very much in a kind of a safe space where they can talk to each other and explore the challenges they have, and we have experts and case studies within the room in a live environment, and they can run through what they've different people have done. And so it's very much a kind of intimate atmosphere where you know you don't you're not worried about revealing your challenges and perhaps your unknowns as well. So that that's extremely powerful in that regard. But and I know in a more kind of we also run um conferences, uh say like the Global ABM conference, which took place in November. Um, and that's just brilliant because in terms of a sales cycle, um, and this works across all kinds of events, um all kinds of disciplines and and verticals, you know, we live in this world we talked earlier on about the fact that MQLs still exist but are kind of you know challenging as a currency. And a lot of we know that a lot of research goes on in dark mode, right? When people aren't they they you know they they don't they they don't want to give you their details to download content anymore, they don't want to become part of a lead funnel, they want to consume at their own time and they want to pop up exactly as you said earlier on when it suits them to say I want to buy this. So what an event does, if you if you can convince someone to come to an event, you're you're kind of like you're you're making them raise their hand and become a prospect because and you're you're bringing them there to the organization. If they've if they've attended, it doesn't matter how much, to a certain extent, it doesn't matter how much they paid for it, and often often if you're a prospect, it'll be free. It's about their time, their commitment about to being there. And nothing says, I'm interested more than I'm gonna give up a day or more of your time my time to to turn up and be there in person with you and your and and your people and your peers. And you know, and also as I said before, again, that it's the they may not appreciate this, but the thing which is really valuable so valuable is like presentation's fantastic, it's great. It's the I'm here with other people who share my pain points. And that you know, when people are feeling you know isolated and uh and alone and kind of and and a bit overwhelmed, which is we all do a lot of the time, to be in a room with people who share your pain is is extraordinarily valuable. Um so so all those reasons why events are very powerful right now, and I you know, and I think and I think it's great, you know. I think it the the industry is so much better, the people in it are so great that bringing them together, whatever group subset it is, is is a great thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Especially like the mixture between in-person, which has been fantastic, especially last year. That was kind of uh really made an effort to go to those last year and found great value in them, even just through building out your network and sharing experiences, learning new things. Like someone was chatting about, you know, maybe a different marketing strategy that they're you know trying for their clients, um, and that would kind of give me an idea. And then you kind of go back and forth, etc. So it's really beneficial that way. And I've seen a you know, a lot of online communities actually develop as well, which can bridge the gap between maybe conferences and events that's more of a weekly connection, a daily connection, whether it's a Slack channel or another kind of uh platform that they've built out themselves where you're just you know, whether it's go to market and it's everything inside there is just pure go-to-market, or everything B2B marketing, or everything content marketing. So I think it's going to be really interesting to see how brands position themselves in those areas, whether that be sponsoring the community, building the community themselves. Um, I think that's a really interesting dynamic of marketing and how they get integrated. Any tips for from your own perspective on how that can work well from a B2B company, maybe looking at investing in it, but don't know whether to sponsor an event, start an event, or start a community, sponsor a community, etc.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Well, that's a again, it's a it's a fascinating topic right now, Jack. Um I I would I would just urge a bit of separation between the words events and community because community has a certain set of expectations around it, um, which are not necessarily the same as an event, which can be like a standalone isolated activity. There is a definitely overlap between them, but you know, I definitely urge community with a small C is what we have across B2B marketing generally, and there's different subsets of that, and that's really powerful. So tapping into that is a really great thing. I would urge companies caution if they're thinking about trying to build their own community, which is a longer term thing. It's definitely possible, it's definitely valuable, it's definitely hard work, it definitely requires a major, major commitment. Um, and in a in a in a time when and it definitely won't repay you tomorrow. So so you know, in a time when marketing budgets are fickle, I I would just say you just be careful about that. But in terms of events, I mean what it's just it's a bit like the whole influencer conversation, you know, like if you're you're looking to be present where your customers are, you're looking to you know, you you have someone who's already done the hard work, who's brought your customers to place. Well, that's that's an obvious thing to invest in. But in terms of running your own events, and I did some work, I'll be kind of upfront in terms of I did some work as an influencer to with with C Vent recently, who are an influencer platform. And I and that but their piece of work really resonated with me because they were talking about what event-led growth looks like. Um, and um it absolutely aligned with what B2B marketing does for propolis, which is that it's actually not so much about big one-off, you know, landmark events. Those things are good, but actually it's the regular and often little bits and pieces, smaller events for niche community niche niche groups of people, which can be more powerful because you know, and and they they they can be more tactically deployed as well. Um, and so that's a better that's better aligned probably with an annual go-to-market strategy than an annual event, even though any events are good too. As you were talking, what reminded me is to go back to my other point about your customers, right? Because they're so fundamental. And we're still talking now, you know, I remember 20 years ago saying marketers should spend time with their customers and they just don't, right? Um, and actually, so having things like advisory boards, right, customer forums is a great way of you're kind of building a community that's probably that's post-sale, but that that's that's a valuable that has additional value to it, which which which which you shouldn't overlook. And the power of those recommendations is really, really, really important. I just think from a new cold new business perspective, it is very challenging because people have that trust threshold, which you don't, which you know, they're reluctant to let you through until they've made a purchase.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Even the post-purchase, that would be actually a great place to start off, like you mentioned there. I think that might be even just the place to start because they're paying customers already. And um, sometimes it's a feedback that we don't always want to hear, but it's the one that would make like a lot of difference in terms of whether that's improving your product or improving your service to them. Uh they're the ones that are paying, those are the ones that you want to keep uh avoid churn, keep longevity going, keep the relationship going. So that could be a great place to start is just get your existing customers and start asking them questions and just give them an opportunity to speak. Agreed, absolutely agreed. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

We just told me to be marketing just in one afternoon on the first day of January as well, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

We can sit back anyway from here and Joel in. I think 2026 will be a breeze. So we're we're pretty much dead. It's all good. But no, it is like it sounds simple, but sometimes it probably is the simple stuff that we probably avoid, especially myself being in the content marketing, let's say, of it, you you can have all the tactics and strategies, and you know, you're gonna improve this title, you're gonna improve this thumbnail, you're gonna make this edit or this different camera angle, etc. And often it is just the simple, consistent stuff that um makes a difference as long as you commit to it over a long period of time that actually moves the needle. And that kind of brings me on to the the last part of this, Joel, is if you could kind of give one piece of advice, your 1% insight, for example, the change that B2B marketers need to make in 2026 when it comes to improving trust and influence, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 30:51

So recognizing those mechanisms that you have. I really think thought leadership is the is the thing which could drive so much value and it provides a central central area of your messaging. It provides a real central voice and allows you to tap in. So I would I would urge you to think about that. But you know, all those areas, you know, advocacy is so powerful, right? You know, you if you can get your customers on board, you just requ it it's it's not yeah, that you can deliver so much so much opportunity, so much benefit by having those people aligned around what you're doing and deploying them in your communications. So I'd look at that too. Um so I hope that helps.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Fantastic, Joel. And then the last uh the last part is uh a rapid fire round. Um there's uh three questions here. The first one is I've changed this. I I previously asked like what is the best book, but since then I've been kind of told that it actually is better to include resource because um you can kind of include either a book or a podcast or a newsletter that people like to subscribe to. So uh here it goes. The first question, Joel, in the rapid fire round is the best resource for B2B marketing right now.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Well, you know, I've got to say my podcast or my newsletter, haven't I? Otherwise, I'd be kidding myself. Um you should also subscribe, so so trust and influence in B2B or my my Linton newsletter where I deliver the same in different slices, the same insights. Um, or you can look at my um my my link, my YouTube as well. So I'm active on all those channels. Um and you on YouTube I go to events and I do a little bit of filming at events. So that sounds very self-serving. You should also check out um there are lots of fellow influencers you should check out as well in B2B, and I you know I'd urge you to follow B2B marketing um as well. Um it's the with the kind of um with orange branding that you know that they pump out some great content. It's my my business. So if at the risk of sounding self-serving, that's what I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

One company that demonstrates strong B2B credibility or caught leadership, in your opinion, over the last kind of few years and going into 2026.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Gosh, in terms of thought leadership, um, a couple of the ones which linked to mind immediately are uh Sakana are great at that, and they're they're they're they're actually a consumer insights company, but they they're they sell to businesses, so they're a B2B brand. Um they're they're fantastic. Cap Gemini have also been really, really consistent in terms of their thought leadership. Uh so I you know, I I'm really impressed by the stuff they've delivered. So I'd say there's kind of two there, but you know, from terms of other other other brands across B2B, you know, um I'd look at a really interesting one as a marketer I always admire is a boy called Brian McCready, who works at a law firm actually called Adoleshore Goddards and he who he produces great marketing. I mean he's really pushing the creative boundaries, not in thought leadership or that, but he's just someone who's always prepared to make himself feel a bit uncomfortable in terms of the things that he does. So I'd I'd check out what Brian McCready's doing.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Cool, I'll check him out. Um and then the last one, if you weren't working in BDB marketing, what would you be doing?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Oh my goodness I'd be di I'd be bereft, Jack. I don't know what I'd be doing. Um I mean if I wasn't if I I'd probably be a journalist in another I'd probably try to be a journalist in another capacity. I'm I'm I love um architecture and the built environment um and um you know and and and and and and I I like kind of I love the kind of property refurbishment stuff that you get on YouTube as well. You know, people I like I love seeing a result, seeing a transformation. So maybe something in that area, um that would be fun.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Very good. Uh thank you very much uh for sharing your 1% insights today, Joel. Where can our listeners learn more about you, the podcast, and etc.?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Well, you can follow me on LinkedIn, Jack. I've really enjoyed this conversation. Um I'm it's if you look for Joel Harrison, I'm the there are I'm the kind of the main the most visible Joel Harrison on LinkedIn. Um or you can search for Trust and Influence in B2B, wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, um, or on YouTube, as I say, uh you can find me there where you can get you can down, you can access the podcasts and a load of other stuff I've done. My own uh speaking where the where it's visible are the podcasts that I've appeared on or where I go to events and I do a bit of video to you can understand what's going on the market. I'm trying to show people what I can see in the market and you know I'm having a bit of fun playing with new technology as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Fantastic. We'll link those in the show notes so you can check them out below in this podcast episode. Thank you, Joel.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Thanks, Jack. It's been great talking to you.