Defining a Category While it's Still Being Built with Eoin Hamilton of Overpath | #34

How do you market a product when the category doesn't have a name yet?

This week on The 1% Insight, I'm speaking with Eoin Hamilton, Head of Marketing at Overpath, to discuss how they are helping shape their category.

In this episode, we cover:

1. How to market products within relatively new categories and how the vocabulary used to describe it changes. Focus back on the problems of your customers even when the language used by companies to describe it may change from week to week.
2. Humanising B2B tech brands through positioning, content & your people.
3. ICP & Personas need to be treated differently, separate the company from the people within it. It may be business-to-business but it's all about connecting with people.

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B2B Marketing, B2B Technology, Content Marketing, B2B Content Marketing, B2B Tech Marketing, Trend 7 Media, B2B Content 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the 1% Insight, your podcast for all things B2B tech marketing. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Owen Hampton of Overpat. And Owen's experience is fantastic coming from a sales side of things, B2C, where he was CMO and co-founder of Hiker, and he really led the global user growth strategy utilizing different marketing channels to scale their user base from under a thousand to over 1.5 million. Since then, uh Owen has done some really interesting fractional CMO work and most recently is working as head of marketing at Overpath, which we are going to be getting into today. Welcome to the podcast, Owen.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Thanks, Jack. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Brilliant. So we'll go straight into it because it's a company that I've been admiring in terms of the content you're doing at uh Overpat, uh, in terms of what you're achieving and the whole strategy of how you're going to market. So, and the interesting part of it is that you're defining a category as it's being created and as it's being formed. So you're naming that category. Um, you've kind of landed on revenue execution, um, if I'm kind of correct in saying that, and you're kind of trying to name it and form it before the market even maybe has words to describe it. So, in your opinion, how do you sell something that buyers don't yet have the words to describe at this moment?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, I guess like it's uh like that we're actually kind of doing two things at the same time. One, we are doing what you're saying, and that we're trying to name a problem that everybody feels. So, like the you know, the the uh the two founders, Ross and Dermot, like they they've done their research, they felt the pain themselves, Ross being a sales leader himself and Dermot being a um uh multiple-time CEO and leader of of technology companies, they felt this pain before where you know the forecast says one thing and and uh and the actual number at the end of the quarter is is a different number. So, what's the problem there? How are they managing reps? And you know, every single B2B SaaS company, um I guess any kind of sales uh organization will kind of feel the exact same pain. So, yes, we're doing that. We're we're trying to name that problem and uh how do we how do we fix that problem? But the other thing is that you you mentioned about uh revenue execution, and for the those keen ears and experienced ears, they'll know that revenue execution is already a it's a term. It's been in existence for uh probably about a decade now, maybe even longer. In today's world, when you have something like an overpath or or some of our competitors, uh it the revenue execution better suits that. Do you know what I mean? So like we we do a lot of whatever the traditional term for revenue execution is, but more. And the and the key part of that is actually execution. Um, because what revenue execution was before is more revenue intelligence, it's kind of telling you what what has happened rather than actually doing the thing. So the uh the intelligence might might tell the rep, the manager, you should do this thing, whereas the other way around, we want you to do this thing. The agent should act on this on this particular action. So it's just trying to merge those two worlds. But the the rather than trying to take revenue execution and like completely redefine what that actually means, it's trying to uh name the problem, call that out, get people, um, I suppose make it undeniable what that this is a problem that we all share, and then go, hey, there's actually a term for this, it's called revenue execution, it's been around for a while. And we also get the benefit from all the the SEO juice and and uh the the the uh the conversations that have been going on about revenue execution. So it's the evolution of revenue execution as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

And I've even seen there probably on your own uh LinkedIn and and Teams LinkedIn that it's obviously a very competitive space and you have some big players taking notice of you quite clearly in terms of uh maybe what they're also bidding on, um that you know, since you've started kind of formalizing um maybe the category of the name um and leading it, your kind of thought leadership and the content that you're putting out there, that you know, you've probably been picked up by, and we don't have to mention them, but big players in the games uh in terms of revenue intelligence, uh sales, tools, etc. How have you found that? And is that, I suppose, justification that you're on the money as opposed to ah, they're they're copying us?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

No, it's definitely the former, like it's justifications, validation. Uh it's the it's actually there was a moment here last week you're probably calling out the screen grab from our Google search. Yeah, when we type in our I do it every couple of days, I'll just type in overpats of Google and see what comes up. And for the first time, we actually mentioned it weeks ago. We're like, we can't wait for the day when we'll see one of our competitors show up as a sponsor result for our brand name. And not one, but two showed up last week. Uh uh and it was just it was a big moment, and we actually were just like, this is brilliant. Now it's gonna cost us, it's gonna cost us brand protection. Now we're gonna have to spend money to protect our brand. Uh, but it's a big moment. So it means that the the competitors are say think that it's enough to take our keyword and that that we're making enough noise about this that they need to actually try and take a bit of that traffic away from us. And it's funny around the the the vernacular and the category that we're seeing uh from our competitors that like this this is a category that was only really defined in the last six months. Like when the guys actually founded the business uh and and had the initial idea, no one was doing this. Like there was uh basically everybody was using Chat GPT, using Claude, uh using LLMs to uh kind of summarize notes and summarize call transcripts and uh get recommendations of what they should do. Uh and that's a still what a lot of sales teams are doing, so but there was no solution that actually uh that did this and built was built into their workflow. Now there's multiple companies that were doing it, and everybody's been trying to like name what it is using like revenue action and uh I can't think of some of the other ones, but they had their own words. And I've actually noticed in the last, I'd say even like the last two weeks, maybe a month at most, that AI revenue, AI teammate has become like the vernacular, and we've been using that for the last, I'd say six months. Uh, and revenue execution have been the two kind of key things that we've noticed. Now, maybe subconsciously we've noticed other people, other brands that have been doing it, and we think that we're the ones that have been doing it. Probably a little bit uh we're we're echoing each other a little bit, a little bit of an echo chamber, but uh it feels like it's it's we're all kind of centralizing in on this category. So it feels like that category is now actually being defined, and we're all now starting to compete on those those keywords. So it's it's it's uh that now it comes comes back to like how are we standing out, not just from a product perspective, but how are we actually standing out from a marketing perspective?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

It's really rare to be in a situation like this where you know, usually, you know, kind of going into a role, the the category is is formed for years in some place decades. Um, you know, you you've seen what has gone in the past, you've seen kind of similar playbooks of how things work, but it's it's very interesting to see this happening in in real time. Uh and we're speaking in terms of things changing on a weekly basis where a lot of maybe in in B2B, uh I suppose B2B technology is moving quicker, but even like you know, other like fintech or anything like that, certain stuff has just had a certain way to go over the years. So it's it's interesting to hear about what you're experiencing in real time um as it's kind of forming and shaping, which is exciting. And you kind of mentioned a good point there, Owen, in terms of a lot of companies, and it doesn't even just count for software, it's any workaround that you know, since AI has um over the last few years, uh mainstream anyway, people have been looking at ways of building custom solutions to solve their problems. But I think we're now coming to a a scenario where these tools aren't maybe working, the custom builds, uh, where it's like, you know, we had this problem, we went into Cloud and we fixed it, but they're they're shortly finding out that tokens are a huge cost. Uh, who's gonna fix it if it's broken? It might not integrate nicely into other tools with APIs and all that type of stuff. What's your take on that in terms of people building you know their own products? And I just I think the value is still there in going with someone that is doing all the hard work for you and you pay the monthly subscription to use that tool from a team that has they're doing it every day. What's your kind of take on that whole scenario where people are building history repeats itself like this?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Has been going on since day dots, since technology existed. There's always been like internal custom technologies that companies will build, right? Like, so you know, I I even remember back in uh an old business that I was in, um like uh it was just like ISO certifications, not the most pretty and sexy thing in the world, but uh we the way our business worked, we needed something that was more custom built. So we uh uh sugar CRM, if anybody remembers that, that was something it was like an open source platform where you can build and like modulize your own CRM. You can do stuff like that with Salesforce as well, but but that was like such a huge cost. So it was there was always something like that where like you had the option of building it yourself. It just mean meant that you're going to need need to maintain that. And now because of platforms like Lovable, Cursor, uh like ChatGPT, the LLMs, all those things, it's just that much bit more easy. And slightly technical uh sales reps are now building their own solutions themselves that they will use just literally for themselves or maybe their close partners. That will always happen, but it is the main maintenance of this. We even saw it in in Hiker, in my time in Hiker, like uh you had local tourism offices that were building their own trail app. And like there's probably like political reasons as to why they were doing that. Uh, but it ultimately they always came back around to okay, there's already a dedicated team here that are building a sophisticated and cutting-edge platform that is just going to uh be so much better than anything that we can do. Uh, and and and and it's going to be more cost effective because, as you rightly pointed out, tokens they're getting more and more expensive. Um so, and and you're even seeing pricing models of uh companies like ours that are shifting away from token usage and literally is going back to like a really simple price per seat model, and and and we build that into our cost as well. Um, so I I think it will always happen every time these technologies come around, anything new, it will always uh there will always be someone within the business say we can do that, and they probably can, but the vast majority will just start to realize, okay, this is just too expensive. We'll go back to the tried and tested route, let's pay for a subscription that we know is going to work. And as you said, who's going to fix it? It's going to be them. It's going to be people that were already paying for it.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

And before we kind of jumped on and started recording, you mentioned there the significant part of being co-founder and CMO of Hiker was predominantly kind of B2C based. And that would have required a different mindset in terms of how you marketed to those individuals to utilize the app. Before we get into the specifics and you know the strategy that you're running at Overpat, I think it's important to kind of realize where or acknowledge where people have come from and how that shapes their views on marketing, um, and especially kind of going from in a B2C to B2B, and that's obviously you know uh impacting the great content you're doing now. How has that experience, I suppose, of building hiker influenced your views on maybe B2B marketing or how you look at marketing companies?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

I worked in B2B sales, that was kind of where my career started. Well, I was actually in retail, and then I moved into B2B, and uh and uh I was always selling to people, and people are buying from people. And my my my mini marketing strategy was always like get to know that person and understand what the what makes them tick, what make what you know, how's how are we going to sell better to that person? Um, and then when I started working in consumer marketing, that's exactly what that was, but just at scale, like you're figuring out the persona, who is this person that you're trying to sell to, and building your marketing around that customer, about those around those those personas. And obviously the the the there's the different types of of marketing as well, like the content marketing um and how you run paid acquisition as well, is different to B2B. Uh, but I've I've noticed the shift, you know, over the last I'd say five or so years in B2B marketing, watching from from from the sidelines, watching from my company chair in B2C, and seeing B2B shift and uh be more customer-centric, and looking at the actual personas that are buying the product rather than just looking at like you are this company, uh, you are the position in that company, so therefore you feel as pain. That's the ICP. Um, and I think the ICP versus the persona, they're two different things, and that's what I brought into over path here. Is like we have our ICP, which is B2B SaaS businesses, uh, you know, from Series A all the way up, perfect spot or a sweet spot is like mid-market to enterprise, but that's just our ICP. That doesn't account for the actual people that are in the business. Uh, the the CRO, what does what does their Monday morning look like? What does their week look like? Um, you know, what what channels do they subscribe to? What who are the influencers that they're they're consuming content from? And we're seeing uh and uh you did a podcast recently about influencer marketing in B2B, and that's something that we're looking at here at OverPath as well. It's it's uh it's it's it's becoming a lot more prominent. Um I still think it's years away from B2C, but we will start to see that because LinkedIn is starting to catch up with the other uh social media platforms and not just yes uh LinkedIn, other channels, YouTube and and and other channels like that. We're starting to see more customer-centric marketing, and I I welcome it, and that's what we're trying to do here at Overpath as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

What I've seen, um, you're doing a fantastic job on it. I I would definitely suggest that any kind of technology company that has an interesting product just to check out the overpath content and the strategy that are going about, it's a really well-rounded strategy, and that's what we're gonna get into now. Content, the marketing and the positioning is very human-led. So it would have been very easy to double down on figures, features, and benefits. But you've you've very positioned the company, very human-led, very human-centric, uh, kind of leaning on that maybe pre-experience from yourself in terms of knowing the person and actually, you know, speaking to them. Um, a lot of your content has, you know, your team members, like you know, you feel like you know the team before you've even launched a product, but like I've seen so much of your team on my LinkedIn feed that it's just it just you start recognizing it, and it's the brand memorability that we speak about as well. A lot in one plan insight. There's so much studies coming from the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute and different buyer research, and like it's the memorability. And I think um Wendy Walker, I just purchased her book at the moment, and I've only started it uh around B2B marketing, and she had a term in one of the opening chapters about viability, so it's not about you know trustability, it's like can the prospect you know view you as someone that they would buy from, and that whole term that I think she is coined in terms of viability, but it's you know kind of feeding into that in terms of what you're doing, you know, you can really recognize uh the brand um and the people behind it. So the in-person events, you had one last week, and you have webinars, all these different things, very human-led for a technical solution, uh, even naming a part of the product Molly. Um, you know, it's adding another layer of identity, personability. Is this by design?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

First and foremost, like I can't take the credit for that. Like that that was a decision that was that was made by by Ross and by Dermit uh back at the very, very start. I wasn't even the first marketing hire, first go to market hire. That was Paul, who was is our content lead. So he's in charge of of capturing that. And um the if you look at uh Paul's like CV, you look back at his actual work, it's all very human-centric. Like he's a he's um very much into sport, into the outdoors, into triathlons, and you know, he captures those human moments when people are like in the moment or that they're they're suffering or they're feeling joy and things like that. So he's really good at capturing that. So I think that that that that really resonated with the guys, and we're like, How do we make this technical product uh feel more human and and connect with people? Because uh we're trying, especially at at this point when we're trying to name name that category, we're trying to name that pain, we can't do that with text on a screen. We can't do that with a picture or a graph or or anything like that. The best way to do that is through human connection, through conversation, through video, and and and through those in-person events, uh, uh as you rightly pointed out. So what we're doing now is just doubling down on that. And I guess it uh I suppose on the product as well, like um it's it's not technical in the sense that like it takes ages to implement, it takes it you need like engineers to to integrate it with your solutions, right? It's actually quite simple. The product is really simple on the on the surface. It's what's underneath is what's technical. Like AI solutions are are can be quite technical, especially when you're building something that's not within an existing ecosystem, you're building something that harnesses from other systems. So you're plugging into your CRM, a Salesforce, or a HubSpot, you're plugging into your uh your Gmail, you're plugging into your TLDV or you know your Otter or your gong, uh, you're plugging into your Slack, like that's piece that sits underneath. Um but the actual surface level is really simple, but it's almost too simple, right? So uh what we're trying to do, the the the real challenge is uh challenging the or is is competing with the status quo, compete competing with the conventional way um and behaviors that salespeople and sales team have, because they've been conditioned to you know use their CRM, update their CRM, deal conversations into the CRM, use Gong to analyze the conversation that they had, uh, that syncs with the CRM, use Slack to converse with their managers and have one-to-one. Like these are all the different steps and the different uh uh tabs that they have open. Molly, who's our uh our AI teammate, that is what the that's the one layer that you need to use that pushes everything else, uh like those those interfaces away. They don't they're they're they still exist, but they sit underneath this layer. So it's a conversational window. Uh and and that that's that's the big challenge for us. Uh and and so like we we do need to show that. We need to show how this works, and we're we're doing that at the moment, we're recording a lot more product-led content, but we still need to uh continue naming that problem because you need to get enough people uh aware of the problem before you start showing them how that your product is solving that problem. Um, so yeah, I'm kind of seeing like the the likes of a Salesforce HubSpot, uh and they're even saying to themselves, look at uh um Cloud Force that was uh released there recently. So that's that's Salesforce, the biggest CRM on the planet, uh effectively saying our dashboards are no longer uh of use. This CRM input is no longer a viable solution anymore. If you use Claude, you can use Salesforce, and that's just a conversation, it's back and forth. Um so yeah, that's the that's the challenging part is to convince people that you're able to close the gap with this just simple conversation window. And yeah, that's that's the that's my job, is to try and solve that.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Behavior change almost, it's it's it's changing how people you know do something to something else, and obviously there's that early adopters, and then there's it gets adopted by the masses and and so on and so forth. So it's um definitely a challenging part of being the marketing team of it, though. It's trying to find that balance um of it. And a lot of the marketing for over Pat has been building in public um and kind of showcasing the journey from the early days up until you're kind of still um getting to a launch date uh in terms of open to the market. Um so it's been a really interesting strategy in terms of building in public before officially launching, you know, really developing the company's brand, um, putting out their information on the product as if it was fully fun, you know, fully out there for everybody to use. Um so how do you view, I guess, the role of marketing in this stage or you know, in the last kind of four to five month stage of the of the journey of Overpat? And how do you think that will change maybe once you launch uh into the kind of quarter four of this year and you know the one to two years succeeding that?

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Right now it's about making noise and it's about really kind of like naming that problem before we like so we have pipeline. So we're building up this pipeline of interest, whether they're actually in our pipeline or that they're just aware of what over path is and who is in the the business as well. Uh, like one of the uh we've had a few moments over the last couple of months where um friends or friends of friends or just people in our um uh in our in our in and outside of our bubble have commented on the amount of content that they're seeing from over path and uh that's by design like we're we're I suppose one of our key distribution channels is not just LinkedIn but it's it's actually the our employees so it's all of us we're all uh especially here in the in the Dublin team and we actually have uh Olivia over from London who's based in in in London um so we're all creating content and we're all posting about it at all at all times really so we we have you know five days a week we're posting at least one or two people from the business um and so we I had people like comment on that and that's like that's a win it's a huge win that means that we're we're making enough noise that these people know who we are and then you know at the the event that we had last week had a couple of people coming up I was there to greet them because uh sorry a bit of a tangent but like uh they were coming into the the restaurant and they didn't know where to go and I so I had to position myself in a place that they could see me and every single person that saw me is like oh you're the guy from LinkedIn um so I was like yep cool deadly my job is is currently to guide you to your chair but is also to uh to to market the product so that that's it is a nice win for that so yeah right now it's creating that noise creating that pipeline that of awareness that people know who we are so when we start to show the product show how it does that that's that's moving down through that classic funnel right so we're going from awareness we're going down into uh into into interest and then into consideration and then hopefully into uh an investment and and that's that's what we're gonna be doing from from um from launch day on is just moving down through that funnel and making sure that we're we're we're creating content at every single uh place in that funnel and there's a lot of product product content that we're working on we're doing a lot of webinars we're doing a lot of in-person events we're gonna be doing possibly even a podcast ourselves as well so yeah there's a lot of things that we're going to try and I suppose that's the kind of the key thing as well is that we're uh we're going to be experimenting a lot and that's I suppose that's a very typical thing for any marketer to say but I suppose we have a team of experienced especially our founders uh they're experienced in trying things and you know knowing that like we're we can't go in with like something that we're gonna have to it's gonna take three months to get off the ground um and then six months to actually realize the benefits of and and you know experiment with that we have to do these small things test scale test scale test scale uh and but you have to have the confidence in in to do that right so that's kind of one of the big uh focuses for the next uh I suppose six months is is really kind of getting into that experimentation phase.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Exciting times ahead and I think the the whole kind of brand and demand split that we you know typically see with within B2B companies and and B2B tech companies as well is exactly that really you know it's the the what can we do for the brand for the long-term buyers and then it's like that kind of more product focused content for the demand piece in terms of all right of those people who are now ready to make a buying decision and how can we best meet them where they are so it's trying to cover all areas of the buying journey um which is the difficult part for teams is obviously to try and map out what that is but you're doing a fantastic job of it and no doubt it'll be a fantastic success um in the years to come. So before you give your 1% insight to our audience Owen uh we have a quick rapid fire round here and there's a few questions so we'll jump straight into it. The best resource for B2B tech marketers it can be a book a podcast newsletter person to follow.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

One book that goes way back is Hacking Growth by Sean Ellis and um and uh Morgan Brown. And that's uh what I was just talking about there it's it's the experimentation it's building growth into your organization and experimentation. There's a lot like growth is kind of thrown around a lot in in different areas of the business now it's it's kind of it's a sales role as well as it is a marketing role but growth to me it goes back to like running those experiments and someone is in charge of growth and they work on teams with uh engineers and salespeople and marketers and designers all to uh fit to work on these like a sprint you know and working across like two three weeks five weeks uh on these experiments so yeah that was definitely one that like really resonated with me at the time and still does um there's a a podcast uh uh Marketing Against the Grain from the guys from HubSpot um which is a bit chaotic uh at times Kieran Flanagan is really good at just being like I'm just gonna build something right now uh on the podcast and it's class I love his energy um and uh uh how uh Kip I think is the other co-presenter he then is able to like uh translate kind of what's going on and then some of their interviews are really good as well um and then like there's one uh there's a a lot of people that I I follow that like the heads of marketing creative directors things like that Andy Pearson who's uh the VP of creative for Liquid Death fantastic brand and what they've done with that with their creative is just I think it's just genius. Uh take it like how do you market water? How do you market water uh you know but it's it's just water and they managed to turn it into the like one of the the most cutting edge brands on the planet. Seth Godin as well I love those kind of just like bite-sized things uh every now and again just like simple kind of words of wisdom that kind of like bring it back down to to earth. I do consume a lot of content I I'm definitely a Doom scroller and I just love kind of seeing what brands are doing and uh the good and the bad and kind of go I wouldn't do that and then seeing oh Jesus I never thought of that you know uh the second question I have for you Owen is a company and you can't say over pat uh that's doing great B2B technology marketing right now. I I feel really bad because they're they're all well not all of them the ones that I'm I that come top to mind. So Solid Road uh they're an Irish company Irish founders they're based in the US in and San Francisco I just love what they've done with their brand it's very it's founder led but it's also it's it I think it's in that intersection right now of founder led and like brand led it they're they've yeah they've just done some really good stuff and I love seeing the the content that they're uh producing now at the moment. Another Irish one is Tines I think I just love their design they're uh both in video but also their their product and their website and all of their marketing materials they just have this really distinctive brand brand identity all their icons and things like that it just looks great. And I suppose another one is controversial but like the AI Frontier labs so like Claude ChatGPT or OpenAI mostly those to grok as well I suppose like I I'm not a big fan of like uh of their leaders but uh as a marketer I have to tip the cap and go they've done an incredible job like they're in the news every single day they're just everywhere um and as a marketer I have to be like credit where credit's due they you know you you've marketed your product whether it's like fear mongering or like uh you know telling that that the the the this is the most powerful product that's ever been created it's just it is it's great that they've uh um great marketing that they've been able to convince people of that and get get the traffic onto their onto their products um like they are good products as well uh but yeah I think that that's uh a controversial choice maybe but last question before the 1% insight is if you weren't in marketing what would you be doing?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Probably a mediocre salesperson go back to doing uh to doing sales uh I really enjoyed sales I really did uh probably probably wasn't the best at it but uh I did really enjoy it I just love working with people and getting to talk to different people about their businesses their products their pains you know um outside of that probably hiking full time the last question we have at the end of the 1% insight is what is your 1% insight when it comes to marketing that you'd share with our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah I guess my my experience I was saying before we jumped on the call here that like my my marketing experience is is not uh is not like decades long. Like I I built I started off in sales and moved into into marketing and there was you know going into a a career uh a space a bit later in life than a lot of my my colleagues um there's a bit of imposter syndrome I suppose everybody has that as well and one of the things that I kind of judge myself on was looking at competitors or looking at other uh industries and kind of just like taking what they're doing and doing it ourselves and seeing that as like oh you're not you're not you're not good you're just doing what other people are doing and I think this is probably more of a philosophical answer than like than telling you do this and then you're gonna have X but I think to be good at marketing it's not to get good at marketing and I say good like this with uh uh inverted commas the it's not about predicting what's going to work and about being up this you know having this like great idea great creative idea that's going to work it's seeing something and going that that might work for us so I'm going to go and figure out how that's going to work for us make sure that it is going to work for for our product for our customer for our personas uh for our brand and and and and execute on that but like back yourself on it and and do it the way you should do it. Yeah and and not to kind of think that you're bad at marketing because just because you saw something that you think was cool and you tried to do it yourself that's that's what creativity is you know look at music look at any other kind of creative uh path that's what people have been doing they've they've seen something they've been inspired by something and they want to do it themselves and see if it works. So that's not bad marketing. That's just you trying to do something that you think will actually work for your brand.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

That's a great point to to leave it on uh Owen um thank you very much for for sharing all those insights and your career journey to date uh really looking forward to seeing what Overpat do over the next few months and over the next few years I'm sure there's gonna be some great product but also fantastic content as well for us all to kind of enjoy. So uh before you uh head off um where can our listeners learn more about yourself and Overpat?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Um mostly LinkedIn so uh as I said we're we're posting every single day if you if you haven't already uh been berated with our content uh so just search overpats on LinkedIn there's two uh so we're the one that's the little purple icon um and then I'm on LinkedIn as well find me on Instagram as well Yosemite Ham. You won't find any uh marketing or uh AI teammate content there it's all mostly outdoor content that that's on that but LinkedIn is is the best place to find us.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Thanks very much for your time.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Thanks Jack